A little complaining

"Funktheduck" (funktheduck) 01/30/2015 at 15:03 • Filed to: None

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Today is a day to avoid the FP comment section on anything Miata.

It's nothing but people complaining about a tiny car not having hellcat power figures. I know I don't need to explain or defend the new Miata's engine figures to you but I will since y'all are civilized and people on the FP are still getting pissy that I don't like flat billed hats. I think I know how Doug feels now.

I have nearly 14K miles experience with the 2.0 skyactive engine and unknown mileage in my gf's 3 with the same engine but pre skyactive platform. It is a great engine. You won't be winning many drag races but it'll get you fast enough to get you in serious trouble. To top it off, my car is 500+ pounds heavier and fwd.

155 hp is enough to have fun without killing yourself too easily. My guess is most of the people who bemoan the power figures and compare it to cars of similar ilk, likely have never driven those cars to even know what they're like. "Even the Toyobaru twins have 200 hp and they're slow" they wail. To that I say, the Miata is smaller, lighter, and never had any pretentions to be a drift car.

Another factor is the MPG. We complain "it's a sports car, to hell with gas mileage". Why don't you go tell that to the federal government and their requirements. Mazda is ahead of the game. I get 40 mpg in mine on the highway. I can get more if I want to drive a little slower.

Mazdas aren't about straight line speed for the power gluttons. They're about having fun and putting a smile on your face. Hell, they had some so fun the cars themselves were smiling from the factory.

Why buy a car that you can't use to its full potential? You don't need 700 hp to do burn outs. It's fun to say you have that much power but it can't be utilized on the street. If you do you're an asshole who puts people's lives in danger. Not everyone has the ability to track their car and not every car can handle being tracked regularly regardless of power. And if we're really honest with ourselves, very few people can handle the power new cars are coming out with. It's very cool and impressive, but just because you can buy a car with 400+ horsepower doesn't mean you have the ability to push it anywhere near its limits.

One final note. What carmaker has come along that made a car that was smaller, safer, more powerful, and lighter than its first iteration? I'd really like to know. Everyone complains that cars have gotten big and bloated and they need more power just to move and yet Mazda comes along and does it and all people do is bitch.

So while all these commenters are complaining about the new Miata not having enough power while they're getting gas in their non existent Hellcat for the 2nd time today, that can't take a turn without spinning out or their Z06 that went into limp mode after being tracked for 15 minutes I'll be enjoying a mountain road, smiling at the fun, not worrying about killing myself with a fat wallet that doesn't go to gas, higher insurance premiums, and a cheaper MSRP.

Photo credit to the first thing that popped up in GIS.

CB > Funktheduck 01/30/2015 at 15:06

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This is where the mantra of "better to drive a slow car fast than a fast car slow" comes in.

Funktheduck > CB 01/30/2015 at 15:10

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I know my abilities. I can't drive a truly fast car fast in a safe manner. I drove a true race car once on a track and it was pretty scary. Fun, but still scary.

Sam > Funktheduck 01/30/2015 at 15:10

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The funny thing is, the people who actually have Z06's or Hellcats don't complain about other cars that they don't own. It's usually only the people that drive old cars, enthusiast cars or not.

Also, it still has more power than the 1.8l NB.

aquila121 > Funktheduck 01/30/2015 at 15:10

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You have said everything that I thought and more from the minute the Hellcat was announced, and you've said it with eloquence. Thank you.

Also, I'd love to see some of these armchair online-bench-racers get behind the wheel of a Hellcat (or similar ohmygodthisissomuchpower car) and have their asses handed to them by a pro shoe in a spec Miata at a racetrack.

this is not matt farah's foxbodymiata > Funktheduck 01/30/2015 at 15:14

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NA: (after we get past"it's a chick car") yay! Small and light and reliable and a great chassis and great mileage so you can drive it every day! Yay! It doesn't have to have lots of power to be fun!

NB/NC: why isn't it small and light like the NA?? What is this folding hardtop nonsense???

ND: (Smaller and lighter than everything but the NA, and that's with all the modern safety tech, etc., so basically the NA reincarnate except with more manly features for the it's a a chick car people) WHY DOESNT IT HAVE ELEVENTY BILLION HORSEPOWERRRSS???

#FPcommentsectionlogic

RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht > Funktheduck 01/30/2015 at 15:14

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One could also point out that torque and gearing are everything, and for all that the Toyobaru Twins have more on paper, they don't do much impressive in terms of what they put down when it's wanted.

Chris_K_F drives an FR-Slow > Funktheduck 01/30/2015 at 15:15

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Sincerely,

An FR-S owner.

Aaron M - MasoFiST > Funktheduck 01/30/2015 at 15:16

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The more they complain, the higher the probability I can buy mine with no markup.

SidewaysOnDirt still misses Bowie > Funktheduck 01/30/2015 at 15:18

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Meh. Internet commenters who think that anything with less than 600 hp is slow have probably never driven anything with more than a couple hundred, and even if so, not on the limit. I have enough trouble keeping my AW11 pointed the right way on the limit with maybe 90 whp. 155 in a Miata is plenty .

Funktheduck > Sam 01/30/2015 at 15:20

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Exactly. It's probably teenagers who have never driven or drive their hand me down econobox just looking to complain

wkiernan > Funktheduck 01/30/2015 at 15:22

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I thought it was Bob Hall (aka "father of the Miata") who said it, but it turns out that he was quoting a writer for Automobile Magazine named Michael Jordan when he said "If you can't go fast on 90 HP, 900 won't help you." This is true, for LEAD FOOT CONQUERS ALL.

sm70- why not Duesenberg? > Funktheduck 01/30/2015 at 15:23

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I don't object to the idea of it having such a small amount of power, and I think it would be genuinely fun to drive one, because that would apply the James May philosophy and be fun at all times at any speed. 155hp would mean you could rev the nuts off of it at every light.

That being said, the Miata was not a car I'd ever be likely to buy, and having just 155hp doesn't help that.

Funktheduck > SidewaysOnDirt still misses Bowie 01/30/2015 at 15:27

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Yup. As much as I would love to have some sports cars I know many are more powerful than my abilities and even if I could handle them there aren't many places I could take them to test my skills

Milky > Funktheduck 01/30/2015 at 15:28

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On a positive note the Fiata will get more power!!! (probably)

The 1.4t in the 500 abarth makes 160hp & 170lb-ft (184lb-ft in the Dart), so even if they do nothing to it, it'll be more powerful. Not to mention probably look sexier too.

*Im totally trying to make Fiata a thing, an obvious mix of Fiat and Miata.

Funktheduck > sm70- why not Duesenberg? 01/30/2015 at 15:30

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They're too small for me to want one as any more than a weekend driver. I also have dogs so it couldn't be my only car. If I has the funds for a large stable of cars, it would be hard for me to not have one.

V8Demon - Prefers Autos for drag racing. Fite me! > Funktheduck 01/30/2015 at 15:38

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My 2012 Focus SE 2.0 is rated at 160 hp. It made 143 to the tires on a dyno (I'm friendly with a guy who owns one and he was curious). The car has adequate power and weighs a LOT more than the Miata will. The Miata will be fine. They finally made one I actually like the look of to boot.

Highlander-Datsuns are Forever > Funktheduck 01/30/2015 at 15:38

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Thank you! I have a Mazda 3 with the 2L motor and it goes plenty fast to get me in plenty of trouble if I want. I know how to shift so it will also pass cars on 2-lane roads quite quickly.

SidewaysOnDirt still misses Bowie > Milky 01/30/2015 at 15:43

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Fiata's totally going to be a thing now. I hope it's still on.

SidewaysOnDirt still misses Bowie > Aaron M - MasoFiST 01/30/2015 at 15:45

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Lol, I'm seriously thinking about trading my Toyobaru if it's significantly better, soooo......

UGH! POWER! WARE IZ IT! HELLCAT ALL THE THINGZ!!!!!!!!@!!!

Funktheduck > aquila121 01/30/2015 at 15:49

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A pro could do it in an Stock NA Miata.

Milky > SidewaysOnDirt still misses Bowie 01/30/2015 at 16:09

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It better still be on. From what I've heard its quite the looker.

Funktheduck > Aaron M - MasoFiST 01/30/2015 at 16:10

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I'd love to have one to park next to my 3

vchengap > Funktheduck 01/30/2015 at 16:16

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Not everyone has the ability to track their car and not every car can handle being tracked regularly regardless of power.

The Miata is one of the most popular track cars in the world. The whiners have no idea what they're missing out on.

Patrick George > Funktheduck 01/30/2015 at 16:23

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Why buy a car that you can't use to its full potential?

I ask myself this question a lot when I test new cars, which have become ridiculously powerful just in the last few years. There's nothing wrong if that's your thing, but I prefer usable power. It's why I like the Scat Pack over the Hellcat, it's why I liked that Golf R I drove this week, and it's why I really like Miatas.

Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies > Funktheduck 01/30/2015 at 16:31

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Having driven an FRS, people clearly don't know what slow is. I daily drive something with less power than the new Miata + 1600 lbs, and it can still keep up with traffic. For me, 155hp would be plenty quick. If I wanted more, I'm sure there will be a decent aftermarket, and with 13:1 compression and that little power, I'd almost be willing to bet it's a decent tuning session away from a bit more power.

Funktheduck > Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies 01/30/2015 at 16:49

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Ever since I heard the new miata was getting the 2.0 I got excited because that's what I have and I knew tuners would get to work. I may never mod mine but it would be nice to know it's an option.

I think people forget about usable horsepower with all these big number hp cars out these days. They also forget that a miata is not a corvette.

472CID > Funktheduck 01/30/2015 at 16:50

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Complaining is one of the main pillars of the internet. Nobody's expecting "hellcat power levels," but they were expecting a small improvement, or at least not a step backwards. Seems like a pretty legit let down to me.

yurikaze > Sam 01/30/2015 at 17:48

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I drive old underpowered cars. I complain about the complainers. Seriously, an FR-S has TWICE the horsepower of my AE86 GT-S. Any car with over 170hp is a rocket to me.

Bwahahahaha > Funktheduck 01/30/2015 at 18:03

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I have been a Miata owner for the past six years, and I find this 155hp news disappointing for a number of reasons. I've driven the 2.0 in the Mazda3, and in my opinion that engine is simply not exciting and does not belong in a sports car. 155hp implies that they did not tune the current Mazda3 motor in any meaningful way. In all honesty, I'd rather have the revvy 130hp 7,500rpm 1.5 than a barely tuned 155hp 2.0, as I believe it would likely offer a more enthusiastic driving experience. This seems to be what Mazda is implying by their insistence that the 1.5 is the "pure" option.

The reviews say the car takes us back to the original. Great, I've loved my NB. However, I wanted something more, something new, a fresh approach that reinvented the MX-5 for the 21st century, not a recreation of what I've already been able to experience for 25 years at a fraction of the cost. The chassis might be incredible, the looks may be too, but I have a very hard time accepting what essentially amounts to getting less for more in some respects. I'd rather drive a classic than a recreation of a classic. I'm not paying $30k to go backwards. I've driven Miatas with more power, and I had more fun, not less.

I've followed the ND closely and was holding off a new car purchase for it to arrive. However, when Mazda stated that they would deliver a tuned version of the 2.0 Skyactiv, I expected roughly 170hp, which would be a small bump over the European Mazda3 motor which requires premium, not less hp and torque than what is currently found in the Mazda3. I guess I just have to accept that the ND is probably not what I'm looking for. Perhaps the Fiata will be more appealing to me, perhaps not.

Funktheduck > 472CID 01/30/2015 at 18:43

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I don't think it is. When the inevitable comparison videos come out I think it'll top the previous gen.

One other thing I forgot to include: Mazda is a relatively small company. They've put all their eggs in the skyactive platform basket. Not much money left over to develop new engines for low volume vehicles.

Funktheduck > Bwahahahaha 01/30/2015 at 18:49

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I think the 2.0 is a great choice. Mazda doesn't have the money to develop a new engine for a low volume car.

You're not getting less for more. You're getting a lighter, safer, and more powerful version (except previous gen). This is what people beg for and when they get it they complain. While people complain new cars are bloated, Mazda de-bloats.

Tuners will come along if you want more power just like all previous generations. This isn't a Corvette or Mustang. It's a Miata.

I would take the new one over any Miata.

Funktheduck > Patrick George 01/30/2015 at 18:55

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Exactly. Another thing I forgot to mention is that Mazda is too small of a company to develop a new engine for a low volume seller. They're pushing the skyactive platform hard and they should, it's great.

I would take a ND Miata over a lot more powerful cars because I can have fun with it without breaking the law (much) or requiring that I go to a track just to get more than a burst up an on ramp.

I think people get spoiled by the huge numbers coming out recently without any context to what they really mean. My guess is most people complaining haven't driven anything near 200 hp or any of the cars they claim are better because they have more power.

Not to mention, no matter how you slice it, you're fuel is gonna last a lot longer in a miata and you won't have to interrupt your fun just to refuel. If I wanted to take my 3 to the mountains for some fun I could drive it there, have my fun, and drive back and still have gas left over. Can't do that in a new 'Vette even with it's impressive economy.

Funktheduck > vchengap 01/30/2015 at 18:56

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Yup. And you don't have to track it to get to it's potential.

Funktheduck > this is not matt farah's foxbodymiata 01/30/2015 at 18:58

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Spot on

Bwahahahaha > Funktheduck 01/30/2015 at 19:20

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The problem is, they did put quite a bit of effort into developing the 1.5 motor specifically for the Miata. As a matter of fact, they increased its output by about 13%. If they had done the same to the Mazda3 motor, it would have about 175hp, a higher redline, and more character. In my opinion, that would be a lot more fun than the 2.0 as-is, which I frankly find a bit boring.

Don't get me wrong, I'm in complete agreement that less weight is better than more power. That's why I'm a Miata fan to begin with. However, less weight and more power is more appealing to me than less weight and less power. The 1.5 offers more power and less weight than the outgoing 1.8, while the 2.0 option gives less weight and less power than the outgoing 2.0.

I simply wish Mazda had put the same effort into tuning the 2.0 as they did for the 1.5, especially as the 1.5 will not be available in North America.

The Transporter > Funktheduck 01/30/2015 at 19:38

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Funktheduck > Bwahahahaha 01/30/2015 at 19:47

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I think that 1.5 will find its way into more cars, especially the Mazda2. Overseas car buyers are ok with little engines. It could find its way into the US 2 with a couple tweaks like the 2.0.

You're right, they could have put a little more effort into the 2.0 and maybe they will for the mid cycle refresh. I still think it's an acceptable engine choice. I enjoy it in my 3 but I don't go all boy racer all the time either. I focus my fun on turns which I find more entertaining.

Funktheduck > The Transporter 01/30/2015 at 20:19

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I LOL'd for real

vchengap > 472CID 01/30/2015 at 21:13

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More horsepower is not always a "step forward". For me, less weight is a much bigger deal and more of a step forward than a loss of a few HP. Plus weight-to-HP ratio is about equal to the previous gen I believe. So I'm not sure where you're getting the "step backwards".

NoahFect > Funktheduck 01/31/2015 at 03:02

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There is a wide gulf between 155 HP and 700 HP. The correct horsepower level for this car certainly lies somewhere in between.

KirkyV > yurikaze 01/31/2015 at 04:59

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Any car with over 170HP has at least three times the power of my current daily, and I can have plenty of fun with that.

samssun > Funktheduck 01/31/2015 at 05:01

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Ok so you jumped from 155hp that won't let you even accelerate from a cruise without a triple downshift, to 700hp drift cars, with no middle ground. So as a counterpoint: everything about the Miata would be more fun if it had even a moderate amount of power.

They have the suspension covered, but lack the resources of a high volume company to really put R&D into a world-class engine. So how about reviving the Ford partnership, and putting the Ecoboost 2.0 in it? Then make a legitimate Mazdaspeed Miata with the 2.3.

samssun > SidewaysOnDirt still misses Bowie 01/31/2015 at 05:05

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If I acknowledge the objective truth that 600hp is ridiculous in a daily driven, light, 2-seater, can you acknowledge the objective truth that 155hp in any car is slow as balls? The Hellcat protests are a straw man...tell me why Ford's Ecoboost 2.0 wouldn't make the Miata better in every way, and why the 2.3 wouldn't be perfect as a Mazdaspeed.

KusabiSensei - Captain of the Toronto Maple Leafs > Funktheduck 01/31/2015 at 09:12

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Most people don't get power to weight ratio. 180hp in my Mini is a rocketship, but 210hp in my truck is a lethargic bumbling goof.

Hence why I didn't get a Z4 M when I bought my BMW. 260hp in a 3000lb car is a rocket to start with.

Funktheduck > KusabiSensei - Captain of the Toronto Maple Leafs 01/31/2015 at 09:30

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Yup. People don't understand gearing either. They also don't understand that big hp doesn't automatically mean fun.

The miata has always been about affordable fun. A car doesn't need a lot of power to have fun if someone needs big power than maybe the problem lies within themselves.

wkiernan > this is not matt farah's foxbodymiata 01/31/2015 at 10:26

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I don't understand why so many people think the NB is so different from the NA. I've owned both, and an NB is the same thing as an NA, except for 20% more horsepower, less-cool headlights, and a mere 80 pounds in additional chassis reinforcement. If you're in the driver's seat and the headlights aren't on, the most visible difference is that the numbers on my 99's instruments are italicized where the numbers on the 93's instruments weren't.

Murray > Bwahahahaha 01/31/2015 at 13:56

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this really hits the nail on the head. I am really happy the Miata has survived another generation but the reality is it just doesn't seem to have advanced as much as it could or should have. First I'm not convinced its any lighter than an NA. Its marginally smaller and I will admit has better fit/finish and *maybe* materials. The chassis is likely a bit stiffer but the overall HP/weight isn't much better... And this car is 25!!!! Years newer. In an industry where european and American brands are taking huge steps forward the Japanese are making tiny movements forward.

Looking at the authors example. Let's just take the M3 for example. A U.S. spec e36 was about 3300 pounds and 240 HP. Great chassis for the time. A F82 is roughly 100 pounds more, and has 420 horsepower on paper. So basically the M3 has increased in weight by the same percentage as the Miata and has almost 2x the power of the original (on paper, in real life its a definite 2x since newer bummer motors are underrated compared to old). I'm not even going to get into all of the fit/finish/technology advantages that an F8x has over a E36.

HydraulicDragon > samssun 01/31/2015 at 17:56

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155 hp is not slow on a back road. I'm sure I could leave the average WRX driver behind if I was driving this new MX-5. My GTI has "210hp" and I'm quite confident I could leave cars with 100 more horsepower in my dust on a mountain road.

Knowing how to use what you have is a much more important skill set than having too much.

Also you forget that this miata has a power to weight ratio in line with a Civic SI, Veloster Turbo, MK6 GTI. Not to mention better handling and rwd.

HydraulicDragon > Patrick George 01/31/2015 at 18:07

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VW actually seems to be rating their new cars at the wheels for horsepower, at least the sporty variants like the GTI. When people put the MK7 GTI's on dynos they're getting 210hp, or there abouts, at the wheels.

This means the GTI is actually rated at a conservative 240+ horsepower at the crank and the Golf R is almost sitting on 340hp at the crank if it follows the same trend.

KusabiSensei - Captain of the Toronto Maple Leafs > Funktheduck 01/31/2015 at 21:50

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The truck people understand simple things about gearing, but not why it's done.

Example: You have a 3.55 Ford 8.8 (like the one I apparently had the pinion seal go bad on). You decide that for towing purposes, you want to gear the truck down to 4.10. Why? Because by doing so, you increase the mechanical advantage of the system, and thus less input force is required do the same output force.

I've spent all day talking what and how the Ford 8.8 diff in my truck is going to be repaired, and since I'm towing cars all the time, if it makes sense to head up to the diesel truck land. My man Warner at the shop said "I'm actually quite surprised you haven't upgraded yet"

Funktheduck > KusabiSensei - Captain of the Toronto Maple Leafs 01/31/2015 at 22:16

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Yeah. I know with a lot of late 70s and 80s cars they gave them really tall gearing in the rear to help fuel economy at the expense of acceleration. One easy way to fix that is people put in a shorter gearing. Better acceleration without ever messing with the engine.

Faceplant > Funktheduck 02/01/2015 at 02:21

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Had a 91 Miata for 11 years. Did little modifications like Jackson Racing cold air induction, Jackson Racing ceramic headers and a little bit of tweaking on the suspension, Tokiko HP shocks and springs. Only dyno'd at 120hp at the rears. That car would eat other cars alive in the mountains, and autocross. As close as I could get to a motorcycle in a car at that time.

ct06033 > sm70- why not Duesenberg? 02/01/2015 at 03:57

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Im seriously contemplating trading in my a3 for a miata. My a3 has 200hp and weighs 3700lbs and is plenty of power to do illegal things so at 2200lbs im sure 155hp will be just fine.

Funktheduck > Faceplant 02/01/2015 at 09:06

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Sounds awesome. This car will be a blast to drive like yours sounds like it was.